Global Movement: A Dance Journey with Michael Mao

In this episode of SLANT podcast, join host Dana Tai Soon Burgess as he delves into the captivating world of dance with renowned choreographer Michael Mao. With over 60 works showcased across the globe, including iconic venues like The Joyce Theater and BAM, Mao's creative vision has mesmerized audiences from New York to Beijing. Join the conversation as Mao shares insights into his diverse influences, spanning from his training under Martha Graham to his experiences performing internationally. Discover the intricate tapestry of movement, culture, and creativity that defines Michael Mao's extraordinary career.

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Transcript

Dana 0:24

Welcome to Slant Podcast. This is your host, Dana Tassoon Burgess. This podcast is an ongoing conversation around the Asian American experience through the lens of artists and luminaries. Thank you for tuning in. Today's guest is acclaimed choreographer Michael Mao, whose career spans over five decades. Michael shares stories about his early years training with dance pioneers Ted Shawn and Martha Graham to building his own acclaimed dance company, Michael Mao Dance, based in New York City. Michael has created over 60 dances. His work has been presented not only across the United States, but across the globe, from Europe to Australia, and from Latin America to Asia. The U. S. Embassy in Beijing says Michael Mao reflects the diversity, the energy, and the talent of America. Welcome Michael. Thank you for joining us today. I'd like to start at the beginning to understand what shapes an artist lends. Michael, how and where did you grow up?

Michael 1:30

I was actually born in old China before the change in government in 1949 And then went through Southeast Asia and came to New York. I was five when we left China. It was quite a journey getting from Shanghai to New York. To New York. And so we settled in a immigrant community on upper West side, about 1015 blocks down from Columbia University. And it was full of. immigrants from Hungary from Germany, all over. And I went to school at Columbia Grammar School, which was very friendly. And a lot of the students had parents who had the same values As my parents stress on education, hard work, and making contribution to society. I fit it in and it was a, it was not a particularly athletic school given the fact that it was in two or three townhouses. There was a gym, but it wasn't a jock school, so I did okay. I didn't feel. Left out or inadequate in any way? Because I wasn't particularly great with sports or gym for that matter,

Dana 2:57

Which is so amazing because you became such a wonderful dancer. Did you come to dance?

Michael 3:06

Well, I think that looking back, when I was about seven. I was taken to a performance in Calcutta, India, by a group from China doing. Different dances, folk dances, and I, remember very distinctly that the women were gliding on what seemed like lotus petals water lilies, and I even remember at which moment I became curious because when the dancer looked up on the diagonal, I turned my head and I thought that was quite magical that he was able to. redirect my attention. And I try to teach dancers how to do that projection on stage. So these childhood influences can be enormous.

Dana 4:05

absolutely. And those are such magical moments that you're describing as well.

Michael 4:09

Absolutely.

Dana 4:11

And you ended up then taking some dance classes, I assume. And then somehow in your history, you end up taking classes with Ted Shawn and Martha Graham as well. How did that all come about?

Michael 4:27

One summer in New York City. My, one of my sisters had a friend staying with us and their friend was going to take the Martha Graham's summer intensive because she wanted to teach that technique in the school that she taught. One morning she said to me, well, Mike, put on your sweat pants. I'm going to take you to a dance class. I was a teenager, a skinny kid and there I took my first Braham class. The only thing I remember was, it was actually in the big studio downstairs in Braham, townhouse that Rothschild bought for her. and, of course, the first thing across the floor was walking. Remember that I had seen ballet, and I walked away that I had seen people walking on stage, a dancer called David Wood, one of Martha Graham's stars, clapped his hands, pointed at me and he said, you skinny. And I was like, why is he picking on me? And he mimicked me all the way across. And I thought I was just gonna die, and then, of course now, looking back, it was ridiculous because he was a small man. I was a skinny kid, taller than he was. But it was his presence, even in that studio that was so enormous that I felt like a giant was picking on, little David.

Dana 6:04

It's amazing how people can project a presence, isn't it? It's fascinating. And you also studied with dance pioneer, Ted Shawn.

Michael 6:13

Yeah. I was at the Graham school for the, I think three or four years. But after that somebody suggested to me to go to Jacob's Pillow, but I was very pleased that I indeed had gone, not only once, but twice. That was when Tehshon was alive and very much in charge and participating. He would teach class with Barton Mulvall one of his star dancers, and it was all of these forces. Pointed me in the direction of eventually joining a company. Even then, 50 years ago, I was surrounded in dance by multicultural, by diversity. In that case, I think that I was somewhat shielded from feeling left out or lonely, and being left out of the mainstream I didn't feel that way Because I was surrounded by all different people.

Dana 7:19

I can really see how that affects how you cast and how you have American dancers, you have international dancers. You do works which are abstract. Were presenters and audiences surprised by that internationalism, by that abstraction and thinking like, Oh, a choreographer of Asian descent, we were expecting something different.

Michael 7:43

Some do, and I'm lucky that some do, because then we get booked, but from the mid 80s through the mid 90s the critics have already seen three different companies doing Chinese themed work and that, is Unfortunate because they already had an image in their minds that my work ought to look like that.

Dana 8:16

that. Huh.

Michael 8:17

Something that had an Asiatic note to them. At that point, I think that there was only one, fairly experienced choreographer in New York. That's Saeko Ichinoe. And Saeko, actually, also did abstract work and then, of course, she probably also had to reckon with the way that the promoters and the critics were looking for Asians to do Asian works. So she eventually started choreographing, like to the tale of Genji and all of that. And my heart just went out to her because. We should be able to do whatever we want, and I'm lucky that I was able to do a lot of it.

Dana 9:08

Your works so clearly reflect, again, that, internationalism, that sense of movement from Shanghai to New York. Just to change the subject slightly. I just wanted to ask you another question. You know, I'm always struck by your generosity of spirit and positive attitude. Could you tell us about your work with teen immigrants for which you recently received an award from the New York state foreign language teachers association?

Michael 9:38

Yes I think that program started In the late 80s, early 90s, we had moved in with David Howard. We were on West 61st Street between 10th and 11th Avenue and you have to walk by three or four blocks to get to go to a restaurant to get lunch. So a lot of people in the building would have lunch delivered. And these delivery boys would come in holding the. Bag with a ticket in front of them, who it was for and the girl would just, oh, make a right turn, go down the hallway, turn left, and then turn right again. And then of course they come back again three minutes later and then that finally realized, my God. They don't read some of them. So then I would get up and I would tell them how to go and I would use my body, and I would use very simple words. And, of course, they never come back. Now, the manager at that point was watching all of this day in day out. And one day. She said, why don't you put language and dance together? So it's really her idea. Oh, I said, well, now that's a little bit different. That's not quite watering down the arts to kids, because I don't believe in that. I think kids should see any work just like adults.

Dana 11:07

They love a challenge.

Michael 11:09

that's right. And it's up to us not to be too obscure. And so we made this program. I have 13 dancers at that point. First, we will start with an introduction to the school who we were that's for school wide but the actual classes ESL classes that we work intensively with, I would bring the whole company into any single class for 40 students. So the ratio of 13. To 40 is part of the ammunition,

Dana 11:47

That student teacher ratio was a good one.

Michael 11:50

And the mandate is that stand on your head if you must. But you don't need to use language and another thing that was difficult using. Already choreographed movements. So artistically we weren't watering anything down. We were actually teaching them our repertory From very elemental to more complex movements. So all of the action words, we use words, much simpler, a lot of the monosyllabic easier to deal with punch, kick, turn, But I'll tell you one, funny thing dancers who embrace the program, eventually, not only could they speak better, they also dance more clearly, movements are more brilliant because nothing is murky. They understand about articulation and coordination because that's the same way with the muscles.

Dana 12:56

What's interesting how, as the word is defined, the body is defined, right? And vice versa.

Michael 13:02

That's right. Absolutely. Absolutely. It also influenced my work because for this program, we had to really use building block a lot of my dances that were successful from that period were indeed Built like that, because when I go into the studio and start making dances, that's, that comes out very similar.

Dana 13:24

affected you. Sure. Switching gears, I have two quick questions for you, while you were studying dance and performing, you also earned a BA in English from Princeton University and an MA from Harvard University. Can you tell us how you applied this knowledge to dance and how your education formed your view of the world?

Michael 13:52

The study of the literary genre, and specifically my discipline was literary analysis made me understand How one can translate some of the same methods and devices to looking at the dance form or stage dancing, not participatory dancing, but. In any situation that there's definitely an audience and the dancers and somebody, or a team has put it together. And to that extent, I think that while there is a distinction of genre, meaning you don't compare apples and oranges. In dance, it's all the mess, different people using different criteria. People who are in the position, A, to arbitrate, B, to decipher, and C, to review and D, to confer Awards or money and in the end, they're talking around dance, rather than what's germane to dance. So the good news is that there's a long ways to go in this form of uncharted territory. But a lot of what I learned in literatures have allowed me to appreciate certain. dance works more intensely. And not to expect certain forms to do something that it's not meant to do.

Dana 15:37

Can I ask another question? How has the resurgence of anti Asian violence affected you and your loved ones?

Michael 15:45

Well, it's curious because I've been domestic partner in New York City and then the last 10 years, married and he was recruited by the state department to be a regional medical director to take care of the permits psychiatric well being so when we are not in season I follow him around covering these regions and so in a funny way, half of the time I'm back in New York doing dance, and half the time I'm out there. And also, I go from where I live to 10 blocks away to city center where we still have. And I don't go out at a certain point, you have to work, you go home and you eat and then you either do more of your work or you watch television. So it's haven't happened to me. I feel very upset by it because I. I have thought that I wouldn't have to see this again, but, I guess we've had some decades of relative peace, but it doesn't surprise me because when the economy is bad. Ruthless leaders usually find a scapegoat, and in this instance Chinese people and of course, with racists, they don't care if somebody is Native American or Latina or certainly Japanese or Korean Americans, and, They just see a face and everybody is Chinese to them.

Dana 17:28

I was wondering, Michael, what's next for you? What should we be looking out for from you as an audience?

Michael 17:37

I'll tell you what we're doing. The mandate from my company, Michael Mao dance is for me to make sure that all of the videotapes of works are being archived

Dana 17:53

Oh wonderful!

Michael 17:55

all going to the New York Public Library, although it used to take them 10 years. Now it's even longer because there are many companies, as so they all want to be there, and some are just sending their stuff in. So there are delays, but we've decided to convert it to the standard that they actually use, hoping that by the time they're ready to go, What I want to do is I want to put 15 to 30 seconds. Section that best gives an idea of what the work is followed by a shorter version of the whole work, and then a longer version. In other words, just treat, attention span the way it is now. For what it is that people can get a glimpse of it and my board wants me desperately. For me to write an account of the company.

Dana 18:56

Oh, that would be so inspiring.

Michael 18:58

And so I thought, well, the only people who might possibly would want to read it would be people who have spent time dancing with us. So I informally started asking some dancers I was in contact with. About what question would they have for me if I die suddenly that they say, Oh, I should have asked him that would want to pick up the book and say, maybe they can find out that answer. And of course, very humorous. Little exchanges. One dancer asked her question was after all these years of selecting dancers. What would I be looking for in a new dancer, and she's, she was a beautiful dancer for the character. Very long on quality and all of those wonderful things that modern dance used to embody. And she was hoping I would say something along that line that she hadn't thought of. I wrote back and I said, loose hip joints. She wrote back with a face saying, that's it. And I did explain, I said, I've used all sorts of ways to make dancers who come to me maximize their innate talent but one thing that I can change are their hip sockets. If they are built really tight, just so much I can do about that

Dana 20:36

That's hilarious. Oh my God. I love that answer. Oh gosh.

Michael 20:40

Then the one that's in the last group of dancers who has. Who has interest in tradition and lineage and heritage and all of that. Wrote back and said what's your regret? Oh, I said, that would take a book for me to find out. Well, he said I think that I have to address that issue. Despite all of this preservation effort I have not lost interest in continuing to make dances and how the human body works the most efficiently, I've begun to to ask very successfully to sit in on various countries, national ballet and modern dance classes to see how they work in class, regardless of the class they're given. And how they work in rehearsal and hopefully also eventually how they work on stage and so far what's been very enlightening is that no matter what training they have come from no matter what the class was. The ones who excel in rehearsal are the ones who in their bodies have a way of knowing how they should be working to deliver results immediately and further from what is generally taught in academies and so that's a very important thing. rewarding thing to know that that the teaching of dance still has to keep pace with the capable bodies. And that in itself has a great field to learn.

Dana 22:34

Yeah. Well, I want to thank you so much, Michael, because this has been just so great to hear your just wonderful. Diverse history of how you came to dance and where the lens of your aesthetic comes from and all the different projects that you've undertaken in your career and now hearing about the wonderful archiving that you're doing of the company is also very exciting. So we'll be looking for that as well.

Michael 23:04

Oh, thank you so much. And it's a delight always talking with you

Dana 23:09

Thank you so much. Thank you for tuning in today. Please rate the podcast on your listening platform and tell your friends. Feel free to contact me at slantpodcast. com. It's always great to hear from you, our listeners. A special thanks to our sponsors, the Dana Tassun Burgess Dance Company, the Cherry Blossom Giving Circle, and the Dehde Liam Gunawan Hickory Legacy Fund.