Christin Arthur and Joan Ayap: Exploring Identity Through Movement

Join host Dana Tai Soon Burgess, in a captivating conversation with two exceptional dancers from the Dana Tai Soon Burgess Dance Company, Joan Ayap and Christin Arthur. In this episode of Slant podcast, Joan Ayap, born in Washington, D.C. and raised in Manila, Philippines, shares her journey from training at the Hilil-Cruz School of Ballet to performing with acclaimed companies worldwide. Meanwhile, Christin Arthur, hailing from Salt Lake City, Utah, recounts her extensive experience in classical ballet and contemporary dance, including her tenure with the Universal Ballet Company in Seoul, South Korea.

Together, they delve into the intersection of dance and Asian identity, reflecting on how their cultural backgrounds shape their artistic expression. From their early training to their current roles as seasoned professionals, Ayap and Arthur offer profound insights into the significance of heritage in the world of dance.

Don't miss this insightful episode as Burgess, Ayap, and Arthur explore the power of movement in celebrating diversity and fostering cultural understanding.

Find us on www.slantpodcast.com and follow us on social media @theslantpodcast

Transcript

Dana 0:26

Welcome to Slant Podcast. This is your host, Dana Tassoon Burgess. This podcast is an ongoing conversation around the Asian American experience through the lens of artists and luminaries. Thank you for tuning in. Today's guests are Joan Ayop and Kristen Arthur, leading dancers for Dana Tyson Burgess Dance Company. Today, we discuss their approach to dance and to life. Welcome Joan and Kristen.

Joan 0:54

Hi, Dana. Thank you for having us.

Christin 0:58

Hi Dana. Super happy to be here.

Dana 1:00

Oh, so glad you're joining us. You know, I always start out with trying to understand how Growing up has impacted your art and your aesthetic. So, can you tell us, Joan, to begin with, where and how you grew up? Heh.

Joan 1:19

I was born here in Washington, D. C., but I grew up in the Philippines. So I remember growing up, immigration was not as familiar to me. So I didn't understand really what my identity is as a person back home, because they would always tell me, Oh, you're an American. But I am Filipino by heart. I think it was an interesting journey for me, I feel like I had very similar experience from the kids in the Philippines back in my time. In terms of the arts, I was exposed to dance early on because my older sister started dancing and they would see me dancing in the side of the studio. And that was when I was three years old, actually. And then the teacher had recommended for me to try out, pre ballet class. I think they saw me enjoying dance, I had that, I would say, blessings and privilege to be able to do that. Even when we'd be visiting my mom here in D. C., she would put me to different dance classes. I trained in Maryland Youth Ballet in Washington Ballet. So I continued my training until I finally joined a Ballet company, in the Philippines, one of the major dance companies, their Philippine ballet theater. And that's when I was able to work with different choreographers, aesthetics and different styles of dancing I feel like the rest is history. I fell in love with dance, never stopped dancing.

Dana 3:02

And you know, you're dancing so beautiful and I can see where the really fascinating diversity of your background shines in your dance also. So it's interesting, you went from being born here, then growing up in the Philippines, and then coming back.

Joan 3:20

That's correct. Yes.

Dana 3:24

And Kristen, in an interesting way, you share that being in between worlds, right, within your training and your upbringing as well. Can you tell us about how you grew up and how you trained?

Christin 3:38

Yes, absolutely. Thank you, Dana. I grew up in a bicultural household. My father was in the U. S. military. He was stationed in Korea where he met my mom. And so being born in North Carolina and growing up in different states, it was very important to my mom to provide my brother and I opportunities because she grew Was born right after the Korean Civil War and grew up very poor without a lot of opportunities to learn a lot of extracurricular activities. So growing up primarily in Salt Lake City, Utah, she exposed me to ballet tap jazz. I did Taekwondo with my father. I did, all different types of sports, swimming and tennis, and just fell in love with dance and primarily did my training at the Ballet West Academy in Salt Lake City, Utah and trained through their school and then went to the Kirov Academy of Ballet before I started dancing professionally with Universal Ballet in Korea. My mom really was such an influential person in my childhood all the way through adulthood. And she really instilled a lot of her values and Korean values in my brother and I, and so I always felt very blessed to grow up in Salt Lake city, Utah, be exposed to American culture through my father, through my friends, But then at home, it was very much. Korean culturally based through our food through the way my mom taught us our work ethic. And so I feel like all of that contributed to what I brought into my dance training and then how I approached school and work as I became an adult.

Dana 5:22

What's interesting, you also both cross trained, right? You were just mentioning that you cross trained in these different styles, but you both experienced culturally specific dance forms as well. Can you tell us about that?

Christin 5:36

Yes, thank you so much for bringing that up, Dana, because actually my first exposure to dance was not ballet, tap and jazz. The first style that I trained in was Korean traditional dance. I was so grateful that my mom introduced me to that aspect. I grew up doing Korean traditional fan dancing, scarf dancing, janggu, which is a Korean dance. Yeah, so thank you. I that was like a big influence on both dance and my cultural upbringing for sure.

Dana 6:06

And Joan, you did as well.

Joan 6:09

I did. In terms of Filipino dances, I got to expose from it through our academics. It's part of our PE program. I also trained doing hip hop. I was also part of a cheering squad. I was in high school. I wasn't pep squad. So I was doing lifts and tricks and such. I think it was just like a combination of those type of experiences that I was able to bring to my dancing.

Dana 6:40

Great. You know, I can really see within both of your dancing vocabularies how. You have this other aesthetic, which I think speaks a lot to your actual identities, right, of being like between these two worlds, between the East and West. And I think that it gives a beautiful three dimensionality to the work that you share in the studio, for sure. You're both so generous with your dancing, but also with your spirit in rehearsal. I was thinking the other day how when you see fictionalized film representations of dancers and even sometimes documentaries they're often stories of extreme competition versus support of one another. Can you talk about that? Like how do you feel when you're in the studio? Because I, I find your relationships with others to be just so generous and why is that?

Christin 7:45

I definitely get inspired by other dancers. You know, Joan, in particular, she's such a beautiful movers. So I think that you're right. In a lot of film depictions, there can be sort of like this negative competitive. edge that you see between dancers. And I think that surrounded by talented dancers makes you better. I'm always competing against myself and just trying to continuously improve as an individual. But then amongst dancers, I feel like it's so important to support each other, build those friendships, and then be inspired by each other. For me, that's like what feeds me. I just get excited by seeing other dancers and seeing everybody bring such individual strengths to the company. So I feel like it's more inspiring as opposed to a competitive energy for me.

Dana 8:39

And Joan?

Joan 8:41

Well, Kirsten, thank you for your kind words. Likewise, I always admire the beauty that she brings her dancing, and she brings in her whole heart every time she dances. Same goes for the rest of the dancers in the company, you see how they tell their stories, through their dancing and it's such a huge inspiration for me to be able to work alongside to this beautiful artists. In terms of competitive environment. I don't see each dancers as a competition because we're there to represent ourselves. We're there together and we are telling stories together. We're creating a lot of beautiful things and memories for the audience that we bring these performances to. So being able to be allowed to express ourselves fully without any reservations is a great experience. So that's why the competition environment I don't think it's even present in our space.

Dana 9:47

Yeah, I love that. Joan, who do you respect as a dancer from the past or the present?

Joan 9:57

Ooh, so many. Dancing back in the Philippines, I've looked up to many Filipino dancers, Catherine Trofeo, Ronilio Hainario, Abigail Tan Gamino. Those are the principal dancers of our dance company and how they carried themselves as people and as an artist. And more recent of course, you Dana and many dancers in our company, Kirsten, Felipe, those are the people that I also learned from, And I feel like many more, it will be a long list.

Dana 10:40

Yeah. And what about you, Kristen? Yes. Wonderful person.

Christin 10:44

A great question. I was thinking the same thing as Joan. There's just been so many inspiring artists from different chapters of my life, and I remember as a young ballet dancer in particular, I really looked up to Julie Kent, who is a great principal. You know, with American Ballet Theater and dance really beautiful and amazing to see what she has done post her dancing career and taking on different leadership roles. And I feel like when I danced in Korea, I really looked up to the artists in terms of their work ethic and their Artistry. So those who had to work extra hard. Overcome, some kind of shortcoming or challenge. And I always really appreciated the work that went into the process before they got to the stage. Just as Joan said, I feel like I get inspired by the dancers within the company that we are in together with you, Dana. I really look to artists who bring their artistic and emotional maturity to dancing. I think probably one of the best performances that I've seen in years with was Netherlands Dance Theater. I just felt that they brought both their technique but emotional artistic maturity to their dancing. And that's what really moves me now.

Dana 12:11

I think that's so well said, I often think about how dance flows through us that we're somehow part of a longer continuum, right? And did you have a mentor, Kristen?

Christin 12:26

Absolutely. Growing up, In Salt Lake City, Utah, going to the Ballet West Academy, Shari Lane at the time was the director, and she really took me under her wing, and I remember at 10 years old feeling like, this is what I'm going to do. I didn't even know before going to the Ballet West Academy that it was possible to have dance be your career, but it was Shari really believed in me. She pushed me. She challenged me. And there were so many other teachers. They're B'nai Arnold. She really pushed me so much. And so I feel like B'nai and Shari in particular, they were mentors as I was growing up and developing in my training. And it's amazing how those voices stay with you. I remember vividly, advice, or feedback that they gave me that sometimes it would cut me pretty hard, you know, maybe, or sometimes they would say things that made me feel like, wow, they believe in me. So it was like a little bit of both. They would both be hard on me, but also let me know that they believed in me and that it was possible for me to become a dancer. And it's amazing how much they have stayed with me and their words have really stayed with me all these years.

Dana 13:47

Yeah, it sounds like that tough love really planted seeds of wisdom, which are continuing to grow. Joan, what about you?

Joan 13:58

Same thing for me. I feel like I had many mentors growing up, but specifically back in the Philippines. I had Catherine to fail. She was one of the principal dancers during that time and at the same time. She became that role model for me, because she's very expressive when she dances, she really brings in her heart in her performances. and another person for me is a male dancer who is a Renilio Hainario and similar things. This person became like a father figure for me in dance that I remember working with him, he was creating a solo for me and I was not understanding why he wanted to create a solo for me at the age of 13. And I would just like, why me? And I didn't know, that. What he's trying to do there is he's showing me that he believes in what I can do as a young artist. It was a tough love. It's either like sink or swim. It was just like, I thought you loved me, but then why are you telling me these things? Of course, because during that time, you're still building up maturity. So at first, you're not understanding the things that they're trying to tell you and you're taking it in a different way. And as I grew older, I see where they're coming from and they're coming from a place of care. And here I am now, I'm still in dance not because of their teachings, because of the reality that they've had me experience.

Dana 15:35

And I have to say, I, stopped by a dance class that you and Felipe were teaching and you are just such a wonderful teacher as is Felipe, who's our producer for the show tonight. So I can see where dance continues to move through multiple generations. So that's beautiful. The audience. isn't really privy to the hundreds of hours that you put into making a show look spectacular when the curtain rises. And suddenly all of those hours narrow down to performance day. Can you tell Us what performance day looks like, like, what is your ritual? What is your routine? Kristen?

Christin 16:23

On performance day, I feel it starts the night before. I always try to get proper rest, proper hydration so that my muscles, everything just feels really primed and ready and eating healthfully throughout the day. And I feel like A lot of my preparation is mental because even after all these years performing, I still get very nervous every single time I perform. So it's a lot of sort of mindfulness and just Kind of calming myself and feeling at ease throughout the warm up and then during class. And then if we're doing a tech rehearsal or a dress rehearsal, depending on how heavy the schedule is, just keeping my mind primed for what is ahead. The best part is once I start moving, I let go of all of the doubt, the anxiety, and I just get into that flow state and can be as present as possible. And then I feel like physically I'm a big believer in rolling and using different tools to help make the muscles malleable, really organizing my body with A combination of Pilates, gyrokinesis, and then dance class is really how I prime my body physically.

Dana 17:43

And it sounds like it also is sort of meditative, right? Can you explain to our audience, what rolling the muscles are or what it is?

Christin 17:52

Yes, absolutely. I would say almost like a 12 inch long cylinder or sometimes people use a foam roller that will roll different muscle groups over continuously do a little bit of cross fiber massaging and you're just trying to open up and loosen the muscles because we get so tight through like those repetitive movements. So it's important to keep your muscles both strong and pliable and malleable.

Dana 18:24

Great. And Joan, what does your performance day look like?

Joan 18:31

Well, for me, I'm going to piggyback with Kirsten when she mentioned about feeling nervous during performances. For me, it's same thing. But what I do to calm my mind is, of course, to get enough sleep, but realistically, sometimes that doesn't happen. So I also use tools to relax my muscles and I listen to music and I just internalize and try to get my mind calm, jumping into the performance itself and warming up even Before and after the actual class really helps to take on whatever dancing is called for a particular piece. And at the same time, every time I perform, I turn it into a prayer, even though I'm not religious, I'm more spiritual, I'd say. I always. Try to dedicate my dancing and turn it into a prayer. Once I hit the stage, just like what Kristen have said as well, I let everything go. I just let my body dance and also my heart. Just to tell the story that I wanted to tell through the piece that I'll be performing that day.

Dana 19:50

So interesting, because you're both describing this sense that the body is a vessel for the spirit of dance to flow through, and that it just needs to be prepared, it needs to be trained, it needs to be ready, right? Life can be challenging, and you've both had Difficult moments in life, and yet I've never seen you bring these difficulties into the studio. You were always able to be present in the moment of creativity. How do you accomplish this? Was it learned or is it natural to you to be able to separate out? Conflict in the outside world of the dance studio from the creative process within.

Joan 20:40

Being a performing artist, it takes a lot of courage. It takes a lot of strength for us to be able to present ourselves in the most organic way without really bringing in what we're experiencing. At that moment, I feel like you just surrender to the universe and just trust what you can bring. Realistically, you still experience. emotions, you experience something. And I always tell my students who just leave any problems outside the dance studio, just carry the things that you want to let your body and your mind experience. inside the dance studio and bring it into your dancing. For me, that's what I try to do. Just stay present.

Dana 21:32

Well, it's so interesting because when I think about dance and a dancer's life, there's this quandary, that They have to dance with openness, which is informed by the lens through which they grew up, right? And yet, at the same time, they have to embody a role, sometimes on a day, in which they're not feeling emotionally engaged to that specific role. And so, how does one find authenticity in a moment like that when the outside world is saying one thing to an answer, and then yet the studio and stage world is saying this is what is demanded of you. What are your thoughts, Kristen?

Christin 22:24

Similar to what Joan was saying earlier I really approach dance as a prayer as well. But in terms of, what you're experiencing in your everyday life, and then what a role is requiring of you, sometimes they line up, I feel like this past year, I was going through something personally that was in some ways mirroring the piece that we were working on. Working on about Maya Lin's life and like sometimes when they align dance is the greatest outlet where sort of you can channel whatever it is that you're feeling and express it through that particular role. But at the same time, maybe you're doing a different piece, you know, what we would do with we choose to go to the moon, which has a lot of joy, hope. And. It's a lot of fun and there's some light moments. And even if I'm not feeling like that in particular, if you just get present and try to bring that character into your mind and in your heart. It's actually such a great distraction and reprieve from whatever it is that you're going through in your everyday life. So I think dance can either be an escape or it can be a way to channel what you're feeling. Like it's like, there's so many ways that you can bring your emotions into your dance and let it help you release whatever it is that you're feeling.

Dana 23:51

Interesting. Yeah, I like that. In the last couple of years, we've been faced with the recurrent rise of anti Asian violence. And how has this affected you and your loved ones? Kristen.

Christin 24:09

I feel like it's been bringing me up a lot of emotions and I also opened up my eyes in so many ways. You spoke at the very beginning, Dana, about how we live in between, you know, being Bicultural and just like having different upbringings and experiences and I feel like for me, it's like I feel such a deep rooted connection to my Korean culture because of the woman who raised me. But at the same time, as there's been this rise in Asian American hate, it made me reflect on my privilege because I can sometimes present racially ambiguous to people, sometimes people don't know what my background is. When a lot Asian American hate crimes started to really boil up in the last couple years. I remember having a conversation with some of my colleagues. About their personal experiences and how some of them had experienced really horrific Just terrible things being said to them or things being thrown at them. And I, you know, I remember even my mom telling me stories of things that she went through and. It open my eyes, open my heart and just made me feel like I want to support and lift up my community.

Dana 25:35

That's so interesting. You know, I really felt the same way because I think that's why I felt like we had to do the George Takei social justice dance video that we created and also the work about a tribute to Maya Lin too, because we needed to somehow. Through the art of dance, educate people about the diversity of our Asian American community, in listening to your stories and your thoughts about this, I was just struck by the fact that I think we might be trilingual in that, whether you speak English and Hebrew, Spanish, Korean, Tagalog, are other I Language within the dance studio of the company is movement itself. And how do you feel about that? Joan?

Joan 26:28

I love it.

Dana 26:30

I do too.

Joan 26:33

It is true that we are trilingual or maybe more if We're learning other languages at the same time. It's just like movement. It's a form of language that is very dynamic, You know, it can be spoken in many different ways, in many different forms. So I think that's what I love about dance, that not only you get to channel any type of emotions story that you want to tell, you can do everything or anything through dance.

Dana 27:06

And Kristen, what do you think about that?

Christin 27:10

I feel like I've always been more comfortable expressing myself through dance as opposed to speaking. As nervous as I get. To perform, I feel much more comfortable dancing in front of a crowd as opposed to giving a speech or, sitting on a panel and having to express myself that way. And I feel like what's so cool about dance is everybody can understand it, whatever your background is or whatever language you speak, you can understand that emotion. And actually, it makes me think of this past Saturday, I just went to a performance. With someone who had never experienced dance, and I was struck by their reaction to it. They said that it was so interesting to them to see the expression through the dancers faces and their bodies. It was just like fascinating to hear someone describe what it was like to watch dance for the first time. They just got it. I love that dance is that universal language that really connects people.

Dana 28:18

Absolutely. You both are constantly communicating with others. And what I mean by that is not only are you gifted dancers, but Joan, you're also a dance teacher and you have this TV show as well. And Kristen, you're not only dance, is there a point of intersection in all these worlds, Kristen?

Christin 28:44

Yes, absolutely. I, made a career shift three years ago and all of my work up until that point had been in a studio. And it's been really fascinating to see how much. Of my dancing can be applied to my new work at the foundation and just a lot of that attention to detail the discipline, just like so many characteristics as well as work that we have to learn as a dancer can really be applied in all different ways. And then in terms of an intersection. Something that has been really fulfilling for me. Is at the foundation. Our mission is to inspire, empower and connect the next generation of leaders. And we really focus on storytelling, lifting up people from all different backgrounds, but really sharing their stories, shining a spotlight on it. And it made me so grateful to be a part of your dance company, Dana, you know, It's fun to dance Swan Lake and Sleeping Beauty and, do some of these classics, but at this point in my life to be a part of a dance company who focuses on lifting up. Human interest stories, you mentioned Maya Lin, George Takei we've done so many a social justice series of dancing and it just made me feel just so grateful that I'm where I'm supposed to be where both of my worlds are focused on social justice, lifting up and inspiring and sharing the stories of the forgotten and The marginalized.

Dana 30:26

Yeah, I love that intersection. And Joan, what about you?

Joan 30:32

Being a dancer, being an artist, it makes us versatile. We can take on different roles and still be able to bring in our artistry. Number one, I'm a professional dancer. I'm also a correspondent for the Filipino channel, which is a very interesting experience for me because I'd rather dance than talk. But I get to connect. With people through teaching, I get to share my growing wisdom at the same time to younger artists. I get to hear their stories. I get to see them interpret. movements in their own ways and being able to create that space for them to do so.

Dana 31:19

I want to thank you both. Thank you, Kristen and Joan for sharing your experiences and spending time with us today. You really have illuminated the journey of a dancer to our audience. So thank you. And I look forward to seeing you in the studio this week.

Joan 31:36

Yay. Thank you, Dana. Thank you, Kirsten. I really enjoy this.

Christin 31:42

Dana, thank you so much. This is such a privilege and a joy. Thank you.

Dana 31:47

Thank you. Thank you for tuning in today. Please rate the podcast on your listening platform and tell your friends. Feel free to contact me at slantpodcast. com. It's always great to hear from you, our listeners. A special thanks to our sponsors, the Dana Tassun Burgess Dance Company, the Cherry Blossom Giving Circle, and the Deddy Liam Gunawan Hickory Legacy Fund.